Change the OS, stop the train: Why industrial software stability is non-negotiable

Yann: I'm working with customers on finding the right secured operating systems, providing training, licensing, consulting, and basically connecting our customers to different players at Avnet Silica to find the right components for their solutions on Windows IoT.

Ruth: Yann, you spent some time at Microsoft before joining Avnet Silica. What did that transition teach you about how industrial customers actually use Windows?

Yann: They used to use it in a very traditional way, I would say. The industrial OEMs are looking for solutions, are building solutions running on an operating system where it's required for them to have long-term availability, long-term support, and security and stability.

Yann: They don't like to have surprises. Technology is evolving. We see new features, new horizons coming in, like the artificial intelligence. It's slowly but surely coming in, but they really want to make sure that the operating system and the basic layer on their device is basically working without any surprise.

Ruth: Most of our listeners know Windows from their laptop or from their office PC. Why does an IoT device need its own version of Windows at all?

Yann: Recently, we were with Avnet in the Embedded World, and it was surprising to see still some customers who still thinking that the Windows that they are currently see on their computers at home or at their office is the only Windows available first.

Yann: And that basically, and I think it's also due to the branding that IoT something pretty new. In fact, Windows IoT, it's a pretty old family. It was before so called Windows Embedded and Windows Embedded started in the late nineties, and something that your listeners probably don't know is that every single version of Windows also has its own IoT or embedded version.

Yann: So with the rise of the internet over the time, the devices could be connected to the internet. It was more than a trend. It was a must for them also to have a connectivity possibility. So Windows Embedded moved to Windows IoT. So that's, it's first something that is very, very, let's say old, if we see it through the legacy of the Microsoft and basically.

Yann: Windows IoT is divided into two main brands. You have the client version, but also you have the server versions. But if you compare to the Windows that you have on your computer, for example, technically an IoT version and a non-IoT version share the same bits, but the difference is mainly on some features that you have on the IoT that are specifically done for the IoT.

Yann: I can give you some, some examples later. Mm-hmm. And also on the licensing terms that are completely different on the IoT version.

Ruth: When we talk about Windows IoT Enterprise, what does Avnet Silica offer? You are more than a distributor. What does that mean in practice for an OEM?

Yann: What we bring at Avnet Silica is a full service package, and not only the distribution side.

Yann: Of course, we provide the licences. So this is our core business, but at the same time, we take the customer by the hand and we help them identify the best operating system that they need, tailored to their solutions, tailored to their needs. And also we help them understand the licensing rules that are behind Windows IoT and also.

Yann: Some critical questions regarding, for example, the security, some questions on timing regarding the certifications, and also you mentioned before the question of the Cyber Resilience Act, which is something very, very important to them. So we provide a full range of services or consultancy, also technical.

Yann: Help to our customers.

Ruth: And Windows IoT Enterprise comes with a long-term servicing channel. I think 10 years of support.

Yann: Yeah.

Ruth: Are 10 years realistic when AI is reshaping the industry every 18 months?

Yann: Yes, absolutely. I would put AI on the side because it's, for the moment, it's a wish. It may be a need for certain OEMs. Okay. But the long term for them is really, really something critical at a very basic level. I give you an example.

Ruth: Mm-hmm.

Yann: Imagine you are an OEM manufacturing brake, or brake system for trains, for example.

Ruth: Mm-hmm.

Yann: You have a train manufacturer. That train manufacturer sells the trains to any type of national railway. Usually a train is not something that you have on the shelf first.

Yann: So when you have an order, it takes sometimes years of course to deliver and to send, let's say all the trains, the train manufacturer behind. So it's not only to building the train, but also assemble different parts of the trains and some parts, some components like the brake system might come from another OEM.

Yann: So now if you think you provide your brake system to the train manufacturer. When I say the trains, it's also the whole system.

Ruth: Mm-hmm.

Yann: With the electronic part and the software. Et cetera. So it's the whole system. When you provide the brake, the brakes and the whole system, it becomes part of the train.

Yann: The train has been sold to the national railway. You commit to provide the same system to the OEM, so the train manufacturer in our case, who committed themselves to the end customer to provide exactly the same system for over the long term. Why? Because you have something very, very important, which is the certifications.

Yann: The train is a collection of hundreds of thousands of certifications.

Ruth: Mm-hmm.

Yann: The trains are certified with a certain brake system and as well, and that brake system is certified. So to have, so this particular version of IoT, now, if I come back to your question that you asked before, imagine that just on your laptop or what you had in the past, you have Windows 8 at the time.

Yann: And now today you need to deliver a system with Windows 8 IoT or Windows 8 for embedded, but that operating system is not available anymore.

Ruth: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Yann: Then you have a problem, or what happens if it's not supported anymore? Then you have a chain of problems, a chain of responsibilities, all that to say.

Yann: It's a huge problem, so that's why our IoT channel is providing operating systems that are still pretty old. We still have Windows 8 in stock. I just mentioned that we still have it while on your system, on your computer, you don't have it anymore, you cannot.

Ruth: No.

Yann: And as well also the operating system is coming with long-term support with, so security updates et cetera.

Ruth: Yeah. I imagine that especially in critical infrastructure like the transport sector, you cannot change an operating system mid-lifecycle, right?

Yann: You cannot, and yeah, imagine you, you decide, you are that brake manufacturer and say, ah, come on. We put Windows 11. But it's not the same system as what you committed.

Yann: And even the train is not certified with that system. What happens? The train stays at the train station. So that's why today, if an OEM, maybe 5, 6, 7 years ago committed to sell a system with a particular operating system, that operating system first absolutely must stay available over the long term. So here, if we take, I may also mentioned Windows 11, 10 years, and you absolutely also need to have 10 years of support.

Yann: After comes, of course, the question is there a limit because it's 10 years. But usually for critical infrastructures like wind turbines, as well, really electricity, energy, all that kind of industries, they really see long term and sometimes 10 years, it's tomorrow.

Ruth: Yeah. Yeah. It's like a blink of an eye.

Ruth: Yeah,

Yann: That's.

Ruth: But Windows 10 IoT Enterprise just reached the end of the support in October 2025. And there are still a lot of devices running it. So what. As an OEM, what do I do now?

Yann: So you're talking about, uh, a slightly different version. Okay. Which is the non-OEM version. You mentioned the long-term servicing channel, so the LTSC version, which is,

Ruth: Okay,

Yann: it's a servicing where the operating system is available for 10 years. You also have what we call the GAC, General Availability Channel, where it's usually it's three years and you have different smaller versions, regularly, so now it's once a year. That's exactly what you hear in the press. Usually you, you, you hear that Microsoft just released a 25H1 version.

Yann: But in the IoT world, when a customer is using the LTSC version, it's 10 years. And in terms of licensing, it's a, it's a different licence. In my answer before I told you that there's also a technology limit. Yeah, and that's what I, what I think it's also important to keep that in mind. We heard in the press, and particularly for IT infrastructures, there was a lot of articles mentioning that yeah, Windows 10 reached the end of life and that everybody had to move to Windows 11.

Yann: Industrial partners need to keep in mind that an operating system at one point need to evolve to something a little bit more modern. It's critical for them that they fulfil their commitment, but so it's an operating system cannot also last 30 years. And I know that lots of people who wanted to, private people also wanted to keep, so having Windows stand forever on their computer because it's a, it's, it's a great product, but there's a technology also limit. So that's also why Microsoft absolutely needs to move to a more modern version.

Ruth: Hmm.

Yann: But it's something that, so, it's a balance that Microsoft and the OEMs need to find, to find, uh, just, uh, the right, so speed or the right pace mm-hmm.

Yann: To migrate to a new version.

Ruth: I assume it's also a matter of security, right?

Yann: That's one of the critical points. Mm. Imagine you have a system with Windows 7.

Ruth: Mm.

Yann: Do you remember, Ruth, when you had Windows 7 maybe on your laptop?

Ruth: Uh, I'm not even sure I do. That's a long time ago.

Yann: That was a long time ago.

Yann: Yeah, that's exactly the answer that I wanted to have. How was the internet at the time?

Ruth: Much safer.

Yann: How was the technology at the time? Think about that. When Microsoft release a new operating system, usually they start developing or they start working on the operating system two to three years before the release date.

Yann: So if I remember good Windows 7 went on the market around 2009. So I guess they should have started working on that operating system around 2006 maybe. And that was another world.

Ruth: No one had Facebook back then?

Yann: Absolutely.

Ruth: No one had

Yann: iPhones. If I compare, even YouTube was maybe three or four years old, only at the time.

Yann: That was a different world. The internet was very different as well. Not so many devices were connected at the time, and today the security threats are much, much, much more dangerous. We talk about AI, I think that's also the, the hackers are also using AI.

Ruth: Yeah,

Yann: and they are very, very, very fast, very, very creative as well.

Yann: It's another world. So, and at one point, so when a device is 15 years old, 20 years old, imagine if we wish all to keep the same operating system at one point. So that's something that it won't work. You can always, so add some security patches. I think it's absolutely fine. So for 10 years or maybe 15 years.

Yann: But I heard in the press with, let's say the Windows IoT that got retired in the fall, but that was for private people or, or, or companies. I think it's it deserved the rest.

Ruth: Yeah.

Yann: But besides that, so you have the IoT, you have the IoT version that, so you have a guarantee to have support for 10 years, which is good.

Yann: You have some, also cases where there are always solutions to extend, but at one point, so I know an OEM customer needs to seriously consider to move to something much more secured as well. Yeah. Good thing is that Microsoft has really the, the capabilities to provide security, which is great, but as you mentioned, we have the Cyber Resilience Act is coming and it's a different game now.

Ruth: We will take a short break, stay with us, and we will be hearing from our guests very shortly. This podcast is brought to you by Avnet Silica, the engineers of evolution. Subscribe to our Avnet Silica newsletter or connect with us on LinkedIn. If you want to learn more about us. We have put information and links in this episode's show notes.

Ruth: Yeah, I was about to mention the Cyber Resilience Act because now OEMs have to manage device security over the entire product lifecycle.

Yann: Absolutely.

Ruth: How does Windows IoT Enterprise respond to that pressure?

Yann: I think it should be one of the best friends for our industry or our customers, as you said.

Yann: So the Cyber Resilience Act is coming. It's not just a wish, it's not just a basic requirement today. It's the legislation. It is coming into force next year and all the products that are put on the European market need to comply with the Cyber Resilience Act, not only the devices who are manufactured in Europe and put on the European market, but also the, the devices that are manufactured all over the world and that come into the European market.

Yann: They must be absolutely perfect in terms of cybersecurity. Now, if you take Windows IoT, I think it's one of the best help that OEMs can have with that system. Imagine you have a solution, whatever the solution, and you decide to have another operating system, which is, that's your choice. All the OEMs, they know their business better than us.

Yann: They know exactly what they need, but so where we try at Avnet Silica also to help them realise is when they have, let's say an operating system, which is a free software, which is okay, free doesn't mean no charge or free of charge. Yeah,

Ruth: Yeah.

Yann: it's freedom. They have the absolute freedom or live to create their system just like they want and what they need, and that's absolutely okay.

Yann: But also you take part of a big part of the responsibility on the cybersecurity of the system. Now imagine where on a Sunday we are in a period of vacation time where we know that. So this is exactly when most attacks happen on over the weekend, so May is coming very soon where we have bridge between days.

Yann: This is exactly the time where these attacks will happen. What are you doing if you are a small OEM and you are responsible to build the security patch? Are all your guys available also on a Sunday? How long will you need to develop the security patch and do you have as well the way or the channel, the tools or the platforms to send those security patches?

Yann: Mm-hmm. If you take Windows IoT, Microsoft has thousands of engineers and security experts working every single day of the year, 24 hours every day.

Ruth: That's a lot of manpower helping. Yeah.

Yann: And they have the capability to develop sometimes security patches in hours. Mm-hmm. And they have Windows Update to just update all the connected devices. They can do that within hours. Mm-hmm. So, of course, Windows IoT has a cost, but the OEMs shouldn't think about just cost, cost, cost, they should also think peace of mind because they don't have to worry about the security. Microsoft for the operating system will do that for them.

Ruth: Mm-hmm. When an OEM comes to you and says they are in demand of an embedded OS, what are the key questions you ask in order to help them decide what is right for them?

Yann: I try always to understand first the type of device that they have. We have two different versions and to understand their basic needs that they, they have in terms of activations, et cetera.

Yann: But also I'd like to understand, so how long does the future products stay on the market and what's their strategy in terms of security. For me, security should be one of the first questions that we could ask and after. So we decide together what they need after. There are also lots of questions regarding the licensing.

Ruth: Mm-hmm. What are some common mistakes OEMs make?

Yann: Some mistakes that they may have done is more related, based on my experience, on a misunderstanding of some licensing rules. They know their product, so we don't pretend that we know their product better than themselves. So the value that we bring to them at Avnet Silica is more a support on the licensing side and also when they have some technical questions.

Yann: When you build an image of an operating system and there's something that is not clear or is not working, they need sometimes some help from our sort technical experts who are there. So just to, to help them. Yeah.

Ruth: At Embedded World, you showed a LiRISE® solution from Liebherr-Components and Reycom.

Yann: Yes, absolutely.

Ruth: Which is an ARM-based IoT platform running Windows IoT on ARM. What makes this a good example?

Yann: Basically, LiRISE® is, it's a solution from Liebherr-Components in close partnership with Reycom from Switzerland, and so basically for your listeners. So this solution brings a powerful AI performance directly on the edge while keeping the energy consumption very low. So it basically combines a robust edge AI gateway. So this is the Liebherr Edge AI gateway with Reycom's Industrial Secure Edge Platform. And the board that you have on that gateway has a chip. So it's a Qualcomm chip.

Yann: It has an ARM architecture on top of this chip. So runs the Windows 11 IoT Enterprise on ARM.

Ruth: Mm-hmm.

Yann: And this is in a housing without any active cooling. I give you an example, imagine. You have. So this type of device basically needs to go, imagine in a crane.

Ruth: Mm-hmm.

Yann: So a big crane that you can have everywhere.

Yann: So for buildings, et cetera. This is a pretty dirty environment. You have dirt, cement, some cranes as well might be also in some pretty demanding environments like the desert for example. You mentioned those huge cranes that you see in Dubai buildings, all those towers.

Ruth: Mm-hmm.

Yann: You have a lot of wind.

Yann: You have sand. If you have a gateway, a system like this one with a classic x86 platform, you need to have an active cooling like a fan. So a ventilator. Imagine when you have dirt, when you have sand, may want bet on the longevity of that type of device. So the first thing that you have, you have two benefits on that type of technology, is with our architecture.

Yann: You don't need any active cooling. It's only passive cooling. So you can have a housing which is completely isolated. You don't have any ventilators. So it protects the whole board, the whole system inside the case. Mm-hmm. That's the first thing. The second great thing with that, so with that solution is the ARM architecture that enables a low power consumption.

Ruth: Okay.

Yann: For any type of solution today, saving cost, electricity cost, having low consumption, low power consumption. It's a must. I'm not even talking about, so the saying so green and being so sustainable. Mm. As well when you have an all x86 solution, it works as well. When you have, and I'm not here talking about the ventilators, but you, you may have a lot of technologies inside.

Yann: You may have AI on the edge with an x86. It, it, it may work, but the system is huge. Is, is requiring a lot of power.

Ruth: Yeah.

Yann: And now with those systems you have a very, very minimal power consumption. So you are saving a lot of cost while keeping the system isolated where, so the whole environment around, it's pretty under control.

Ruth: That's the most important issue these days. Right? Power consumption. I have heard that from many guests on the show as well.

Yann: That's one of the main challenges that they have, particularly nowadays where the prices are exploding. There's a huge, huge need to safeguard, to keep the prices very, very low to the lowest level possible.

Yann: Of course. And so the ARM architecture and Windows IoT on ARM are running on top of that. So is the solution.

Ruth: What other use cases is this technology relevant for?

Yann: The ARM architecture can be found on huge data centres, but as well, so it's something that you can find in very small devices or. Not in terms of size, but more in terms of computing, computing power. Take kiosk when you order your menu somewhere in a restaurant, you have a big kiosk. Mm-hmm. You have more and more devices running on ARM, the ARM architecture just as well because it's something where you can, to reduce the footprint and have much lower energy consumption on that. This is something that you can find more and more on very, very different types of devices.

Ruth: If you had to put together a soundtrack for this episode, what song would you put on it?

Yann: I have in mind a really cool song that I really like, come from a British band called The Heavy.

Yann: That song is called How You Like Me Now. And I put that in parallel with Windows because Windows is improving more and more in terms of great functionalities, AI, things like that. And I think that would be a nice question that Windows could ask to the customers is, how you like me now?

Ruth: Terrific. I love it.

Ruth: It was fantastic to hear how much actually sits beneath the surface of an operating system that we all think we know, but there's so much more to it. You showed us how the industrial world runs on stability, security, and long-term commitment. Thank you, Yann, for sharing your expertise and all the real-world stories with us behind these deployments.

Ruth: That was really fantastic. Thank you.

Yann: You are welcome. Thank you, Ruth.

Ruth: Thank you for listening to We Talk IoT, stay curious and keep innovating. This was Avnet Silica's We Talk IoT. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and leave a rating. Talk to you soon.